"Can Muslims Be Good Americans?" - An exchange.

My friend sent me this email conversation and i just had to post it here (names withheld). Read till the end to see one Palestinian-American man's response to the points on why Muslims "cannot" be good Americans.

First, the following message was sent by Ms. "A" to a number of others, including Mr "B."

CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?       

This is certainly 'food-for-thought'.

This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish.  And send it on to everyone.  Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities. 

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia .

Religiously - no.. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam .  (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews .

Politically - no.. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.

Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 ).

Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the American

Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no.. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans.  Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.

The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. ....

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.   SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

THE MARINES WANT THIS TO ROLL ALL OVER THE U.S.

Please don't delete this until you send it on.

Mr "B's" response:

i went to an Anaheim Angel baseball game the other night and while I was waiting in line to go through security (no, not the ticket turnsile) I got to thinking about how we had got to this point.  I remember going to baseball games years ago and never would have thought we would have lines to stand in to go through security.  I also just got back from a trip where I stood in long lines to go through airline security where I had to almost undress.  Do you remember when flying was a real “treat” and was something you looked forward to and it was a real enjoyment.  But, now it

is just one big hassle….ask anyone if they enjoy flying today.  

Well, the reason we now all have to do is because of one thing….MUSLIMS…. no one other group, religion, country, nationality has done this to us…only the MUSLIMS…..they have created the terror that we concern ourselves with…and not only here, but all over the world.  Ask yourself….who else do you fear?  And we are to become even more tolerant of their religious rights and  want us to become sharia compliant, which means they have their laws and we have ours????  Unbelieveable……..AND THEN …..the final blow, to build a mosque right where THEY attacked us?  (build it, but not their which is their way of showing the world what they accomplished.

I hear people say that is not fair to the people who died there and I agree, but I go further…it is not fair to all of us that now have to go through

all the crap that we now go through to be concerned about another MUSLIM ATTACK on us.   And what makes it even more of a mockery, is that they check us Americans closer than they do the MUSLIMS as not to hurt their feelings and to be POLITICAL CORRECT……like we are going to attack ourselves…give me a break….BE TOLERANT????....WE ARE….AND IT HAS GONE TO FAR…..these people are not TOLERANT of our way of life which was here long before they came here…..EVERY HEAR ONE MUSLIM SAY HE WAS SORRY FOR WHAT HIS RELIGION HAS DONE TO US?   I HAVEN’T


BELOW IS SOMETHING YOU MUST READ ABOUT MUSLIMS


[Mr "C" attached the original message from Ms "A" and forwarded it on]

Mr "C's" response to Mr "B."

Hey [Mr "B!"]

Nice to hear from you again!

I want to start out by saying im sorry you had to stand in line at the Angels game, i totally understand, it's like a bad traffic jam on friday night. And yea, no one is going to deny that flying can get annoying these days. To blame this on one sixth of the world population...now that's where I'm a bit lost. I mean come on, Timothy Mcvae, the guy who tried to blow up the IRS building last year because he was fed up with the economy, and hard core christian fanatics who have murdered doctors who work at abortion clinics create "terror" too. To blame a whole group of people on the acts of a few evil individuals is totally not fair, and it is not the "religion" which has done "this to us. Ever think that American Muslims also have to deal with the fact that their entire religion is labelled as violent because of what a few idiots did? I must say that i'm glad you sent this my way; sometimes it really helps to talk to someone who is actually Muslim about these issues :) If you take the time to read the quran and study islam you will find that in the quran it says in 5:32 that if someone murders one person it's as if he murdered all of mankind and if somone saves someone it's as if he saved all mankind. The Quran considers human life to be sacred and preaches tolerance and love of others. On a side note, if you'd like one i can get you an english copy of the quran and some more info on islam if you'd like. Or you can check out www.whyislam.org for more info. As for muslims and muslim leaders speaking out against this kind of stuff, check out the video below!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IofpsHOosE

Below i have typed out a response to the email you forwarded me. Enjoy!

____________________________________________________________________________________________

[CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?]

Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia .

Last time i checked the constitution states very clearly

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Our country is founded on the fact that you don't have to follow a specific belief to be a good American citizen. Also as a side note, Allah is simply the Arabic term for "God" and is also used by Arab Christians; Muslims don't believe in a moon god and believe in the same god as the Jews and the Christians.

Religiously - no.. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam . (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Religiously, just like members of Christianity and Judaism, Muslims consider Islam to be the correct religion. However it also states very clearly in the quran: "Let there be no compulsion in religion..." 2:256. Religion is a personal choice.

Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Since there is no "american" scripture that "american" citizens are supposed to follow, this doesn't make much sense. American Jews follow the Torah and American Hindus follow the Vedas. There is no difference when you say that American Muslims follow the Quran. Moreover, the five pillars are simply personal spiritual duties which inclue prayer, charity, fasting, the declaration of faith, and pilgirmage; if we look closely we find that all religions have such duties and these duties don't clash with being a law-abiding, contributing american citizen.

Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Mecca is considered a holy location to muslims just like jerusalem is considered holy to both christians and jews. Muslims face in that direction to pray so that all muslims will be united when they pray (meaning that a chinese muslim and a danish muslim will both be praying towards the same direction when they pray). If you ask any American Muslim where their home is and what their nationality, they will tell you i'm american just like you.

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews .

This is false. I am Muslim and i have a lot of non-muslim friends, and even non-Muslim family members. Moreover the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) himself historically made alliances with the Jews of madina and was close friends with the christian king of abyssinia. Check up your history! :)

Politically - no.. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.

Currently i would say that there are no "islamic" countries which actually rule according to the true teachings of Islam. Moreover it is stated very clearly in the quran in 4:135 that muslims must stand up for justice and against injustice no matter who the one who is doing the injustice is. So actually it would be against Islam to "submit" to anyone who teaches the annhialation of innocent civilians.

Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )

Muslim men are not instructed to marry four women. Moreover, it says in the quran in 4:19, a few verses earlier addressing Muslim men "...live with them on a footing of kindness and equity..." In another verse of the Quran it states: "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity between your hearts: verily in that are signs for those who reflect"(Rum:26)

Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the American

Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Although the Muslim believes that the bible has been changed over time and that there are clear theological issues with the accuracy of the bible, it is considered to have originally been a respected revelation of God to mankind through prophet jesus peace be upon him. Moreover, as a Muslim who knows the quran and the constitution well, i can confidently say that the honorable principles of the consitution also mirror the principles of the Quran.

Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Again, refer to verse 2:256 "let there be no compulsion in religion". Moreover it is historically a well known fact that the golden age of spain was actually when it was under Muslim rule because Muslim rulers were so tolerant of non-Muslims, particularly the jews. It was only with the reconquista of spain that the jews were expelled under the catholic rulers king ferdinand and queen isabella. Check it out! Really cool history btw!

Spiritually - no.. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Here are some of the 99 names of Allah:

Al-Rahman: the most compassionate

Al Raheem: the most merciful

Al Salam: the bestower of peace

Al Ghaffar: the forgiver

Al Lateef: the gentle

Al Shakur: the appreciative

Al Kareem: the generous

Al Wadud: the loving One

you're probably thinking...huh? but yea...i can go on and on :)

Sincerely, [Mr "C"] :)

Sarah Palin to Bill O'Reilly: US Law Should Be Based on the Bible

The following article is reprinted from Newser.com. The original article can be accessed here: Sarah Palin to Bill O'Reilly: US Law Should Be Based on the Bible

Palin: US Law Should Be Based on the Bible

'OUR UNALIENABLE RIGHTS COME FROM GOD.'

By Evann Gastaldo| Posted May 7, 10 7:58 AM CDT|

(NEWSER) – Sarah Palin was on the O’Reilly Factor last night talking about the National Day of Prayer, but she went a bit further than her usual party line of calling America a Christian nation. “I think we should keep this clean, keep it simple, go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant,” she said. “They’re quite clear that we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the 10 commandments, it’s pretty simple.”

What would she say to non-believers who were brought up in a different culture, O’Reilly wondered. “Yay, welcome to America, where we are tolerant and you have a freedom to express whatever faith, you can participate peacefully in whatever religion that you choose, that’s what America is all about,” she said, but added that our courts should respect “what the Judeo-Christian beliefs are, too. It’s mutual tolerance.”

US Law should be based on the Christian Bible? OH FECK! WHERE DO I BEGIN, YOU DUMBASS PALIN?!!


I know, let's start here: "But suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." [I Timothy 2:12] There, that oughta keep you out of politics and in case you get any ideas about opening your foolish mouth in church, i give you, "Let your woman keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law." [I Corinthians 14:34]


Ok, now on with making the Bible law. Sorry Red Lobster, shellfish are banned and so are you! [Leviticus 11:9-12, Deuteronomy 14:9-10].


We can finally round up the gays and kill them [Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13] which will let some HETEROsexual, God-fearing fashion designers finally get into the biz and not mix fabrics anymore [Leviticus 19:19, Deuteronomy 22:11].


We can truly make this a Christian nation by, killing all those who worship different gods [Deuteronomy 13:12-15 & 17:2-5]--but wait, this would be in conflict with the Sixth Commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" [Exodus 20:13] AND with the Constitution "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." [First Amendment].


So what's it gonna be, Palin? Your ridiculous Bible that spews hate, intolerance; that promotes division, genocide and war OR the Constitution, which isn't perfect, but a whole hell of a lot better than the outdated piece of shite you worship? At least the Constitution lets you speak and run for office (as scarey as that is to me).


No, you dumb piece of filth, Palin, this country was NOT founded as a Christian nation. Half or more of the founding fathers were not even Christian, but Deists or Atheists. Further they took pains not to insert a specific religion into the Constitution. Note the First Amendment, Article VI, Section 3: "...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States" and even the Presidential Oath of Office which does NOT contain the words "so help me God." [Article II, Section 1, Clause 8]. The President need only "affirm" that s/he "faithfully execute" the Office of POTUS and "preserve, protect and defend" the COTUS. Most presidents in history have asked to have the God clause tagged on.


Further, the current official motto of the USA, "In God we trust," was not established by the founding fathers, it wasn't codified into law until 1956, two years after "under God" was inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance during the time of McCarthyism. Until 1956, the unofficial motto of the USA was, "E Pluribus Unum." McCarthyism, of course being the time of "Red hysteria" where Congress (HUAC) hunted down suspected "Commies" and demanded they name names or be blacklisted.  Both the addendum to the pledge and the new motto were approved during this scare in order to distinguish patriotic, God-fearing Americans from their so-called Godless, socialist/communist counterparts in the U.S.S.R.  


Jefferson was a staunch opponent of the mingling of religion and government referring to a "building of a wall of separation between Church and State." [Letter to Danbury Baptist Association, 1802] This is not in the Constitution specifically, but whose spirit is held in high regard by those who believe government has no getting involved in such a personal matter as religion.  Hint, Sarah, read up on the writings of Adams, Jay and Paine et al.  Please tell me you know those names.


Now let's look at at treaty that was unanimously approved by the Senate and signed by President John Adams, who in signing, declared that he had read and accepted every article and clause thereof. 

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." [Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, Article 11] (whereas "Musselmen" means Muslims and "Mehomitan" means Muslim [nation])

OUR GOVERNMENT was NOT founded as a Christian government! Did you drop out of school like you dropped out of the governorship? Go back to school, Palin!


-ry

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My Thoughts for the Day

[Reprinted from my facebook account.]

Wish i could bottle happiness and drink it at my leisure so i could be a happyholic instead of an alcoholic.


Ryan Nelson: Pure fantasy in an un-pure world. :(
2 hours ago · Delete

Isaac: nice. Im a happy go lucky junkie worse then shooting smack in my viens
2 hours ago · Delete

Ryan Nelson: Your means leave a more desirable end though.
All the best to you, my friend!
about an hour ago · Delete

Isaac: HOldn on to the hope that I was born with. Years they burn my heart but they cant effect my soul
about an hour ago · Delete

Ryan Nelson: You are strong. I hope you always remain as such. I am looking for strength. I know not if i'll find it. I wonder how i shall end.
You are strong, and therefore a great asset to your loved ones. May you always remain such!
Much luv to you,
ry
about an hour ago · Delete

Isaac: its already inside of you. just look at is inside of you
about an hour ago · Delete

Ryan Nelson: Methinks it is buried under much guilt and sorrow. Both by proxy and self-induced.
57 minutes ago · Delete

Isaac: here is a a shovel get to dign. It wont happen unless you want it to
54 minutes ago · Delete

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I dislike Humans. I really wish we would all just cease to exsit. This world is shit. the race does not deserve to continue. I kinda wish "God" were real, so He could just end it all. :(

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Cast your stones at me; just know that you too shall be pummeled. And when it's all over, I care not.

---

What if one could spread an pandemic like love through hugs? What if love was something that had no cure? What, then, if we hugged our neighbors instead of bombing them; shooting them; running them over in our oil-mobiles; raping them; denigrating them with our words; devaluing them with our politics? Why are you not crying at the impossibility of the initial statement?

---

Is there a Theistic to Atheistic translation for, "God bless you?" Like, "God damnit" = "Gosh darn it," "pray" = "wish; hope," "thank God" = "thank goodness" ... sometimes i wish to convey the SAME sentiment and love contained in "bless you" or "have a blessed day," but i know not what words to say. :(
(I don't mean "God bless you" as a response to a sneeze--that is easy enough: i can just say "gesundheit" or "salut" or "salud" or "eww--don't sneeze on me!")

---

Where does evil lie? Can other animals be evil? I think not. Humans are the worst plague ever set upon this poor planet. SHIT, THE HORRORS SOME PEOPLE COMMIT!!! THE EASE WITH WHICH HUMANS ARE BRAINWASHED!!! WEAK, SINFUL RACE!!!


Jose: Someone once said that you don’t need pride and honor to simply live. Life is cheapened to the extent that it is taken for the most trivial of things. But for those who have values and cherish the sanctity of life, there is hope. And while you may not be able to protect life around the world, you can live your life with honor and dignity. And that’s how You can contribute to making this world a little better.
59 minutes ago · Delete

Ryan Nelson: I appreciate your words. Thank you. Yet, somehow, i'm not sure that living my life in a bubble of honesty, love and dignity is enough. Lately, i've been thinking i need to give my life in some greater cause and then--shit! ONE puny life?!?! I wish i had a million lives to give to the cause of humanity, though i fear such a cause is now lost. I wish i could let a hundred tanks run me over to free Tibet; i wish i could take a hundred bullets for a hundred Palestinian children, i wish i could leave a million of my corpses in the lobbies of the buildings of pharmaceutical companies who charge for AIDS meds. I fear the world is shit and we are past the breaking point. I now await our self-inflicted impending doom. :(
47 minutes ago · Delete

Jose: well, you can't do all those things. so it's best to stop obsessing over them. it's good to care about others. but you shouldn't let it get you down to a point where you are condemning all of humanity.
30 minutes ago · Delete

OYG (Oh Your God)

I recently read an article about how the USA is moving closer towards non-participation in religion.  This is significant because, EVERY other industrialized nation is far ahead of this move.  

Finally, the US is catching up with the rest of the industrial world.  Religion is not necessary for a fulfilling life of morality or happiness. Why do people need others to tell them what to do; to tell them what is right and wrong? Should we risk spreading HIV or bringing unwanted & unneeded babies into this world just cuz the Pope says don't use condoms? Should we believe preachers who call homosexuality an abomination on Sunday and have a tryst with a gay lover on Monday? The world would be better off without religion. Members of each and every religious sect would say that religion unites, but it only unites like-minded people. Overall, religions separate and discriminate against the human race.  Like the rift between North American and African Anglicans.  Or the belief in succession after Mohammed's death (Sunni v. Shiite), itself a basis for rising hostilities which has led to war.   In truth, religion is not run by any god, but by man. Fallible man.  Put a man in power of something and watch the morals melt away and the greed and power mongering pour in: A Cardinal who plays a shell game with his pedophile priests.  A preacher who lives the high life in a big mansion whilst preaching the virtues of a life of modesty.  A King who wishes to break the covenant of marriage and breaks away from the church to form his own, so he can divorce.  A preacher who, though married, seeks the professional, carnal company of another, paying her out of the collection plate.  A succession of Popes who reappoint a Grand Inquisitor to torture non-Christians into the faith despite brotherly love and forgiveness being two of the most basic tenets of their religion. 

 

Now don’t judge me just yet….  I believe that that religion gives people hope, it does provide people with morals.  Not all of what the bible says is bad; yet, the simple realization of this fact—the fact that the Bible is nowadays only partially valid—is enough for me to say, you know what?  I know what is right and what is wrong; what is moral and what is not.  I don’t need some man in a robe to tell me what, or what else.  Religion IS NOT INNATE.  It is the product of human free-will and conscienceness.

Now, granted morality is totally societal-based, not innate.  Innate thoughts are what lead us to kill or be killed.  Innateness, let’s us be savages; the human consciousness is what divides us from the rest of the animal kingdom.  Human consciousness, led us to great inventions like the wheel, the spear, agriculture, imagination (fun), government, laws and morals.  Unfortunately, it also brought us, greed, envy, hatred, government and imagination (religion).  Has humanity grown too big for its own good?  For the Earth’s own good?  For the animal kingdom’s own good? 

 

Again, I do not think I am better than you.  If you truly know me, you will know that this is true.  I think I am a piece of shit.  I think I am no good to anyone (unless they want to use me, which is not uncommon).  I think I should die right here, right now.  (I cannot come to kill myself, cuz I’m too much of a coward, but if you wanna do it, please go right the fuck ahead, I don’t give a fucking shit).  Now, that said.  I am NOT holier than thou.  While I am still breathing, I think I’ll be human and voice my opinion.  If you don’t like it, so be it.  You are human and I respect you.  If you would deny me my opinion, so be it you are human and what else would I expect from you?  Humans are no gosh damn good.  All of them.  All humans must die.

 

Again, I digress.  Like I said, religions give hope to the world, and goodness knows most people need hope; need hope to be happy; to be complacent; to remain sane; to stay alive.  Some people need direction and don’t have it within themselves or their immediate community to give it to them.  In such cases, religion is a, well, blessing to them.  The weak.  Yeah, I said it.  It is my opinion.  Never talk to me again, see if I care. 

 

It just shows your fucking ignorance and arrogance, if you are soooo weak as to believe EVERYTHING SOMEONE ELSE tells you; to fall hook, line and sinker.  See…, just like a fucking human!  Just don’t equate human with humane!  All of you pious fucks who are totally devout, but only to your own brand of Christianity or Muslim or Judaism, fuck you!  You are no better than any participant in the Irish Catholic- British Protestant conflicts, the Sunni-Shiite conflicts, the Holocaust, the Palestinian-Isreali conflicts, the Talibani-Afghani conficts, the Inquisition….  You are no better than people in the 1800’s who opposed Irish-American & “white” Americans from being married.  You are no better than people in the in the 1900s who opposed blacks and whites from being married.  You are no better than people in the 2000s who oppose a man & a man or a woman & a woman from being married. 

 

Yet again, I am off on tangents.  My thing is, it’s okay to have religion, to believe and have faith in that which you cannot see, in that which has no logical proof--but don’t follow blindly, don’t be total sheep (sorry Catholics, the lambs of God).  Use religion as a guide, as advice; but don’t trust it blindly.  Think for yourselves.  Use religion as a stepping stone to true human consciousness, not as a substitute for it.  I do not look down on people with religion.  To believe in whatever you like is a human TRAIT, and therefore an indeniable human right, such as freedom of speech, thought, creed and the right to life, liberty and happiness. 

 

It would be nice if we could all have the same religion, wouldn’t it?  But that would never last and you know it.  Not if God gives humans free-will.  Someone, somewhere will come up with another sect, branch.  Humans will become corrupt and there will be another Martin Luther posting shit on a door. 

It would be nice if we could all not believe in religion, but just the same set of laws and morals, idk, let’s call it government.  Not if God gives us free-will.  Someone, somewhere will get greedy and power hungry and oppress those for his or her own gain.

To be fallible is human.  God’s great experiment is through.  Game over.  All humans must die.

 

I do not discriminate against anyone in particular.  I am an equal-opportunity discriminator.  Everyone dies.  End of story.  Fuck humans!

 

Now…, go ahead and begin hating me silently or tearing me apart openly, cuz you know what, I don’t give a flying fuck!